Talking virtues rather than faults: turn of stifle, lower hocks, tailset and length of tail, and feet. I think Logan's is ideal. And I could worship those feet. Rogue's tail isn't quite as long but it is more than sufficient. I like her hocks and her tailset slightly more than Logan's.Remember on this last point she has more coat. I'm going on what I feel on the tailset. I like Jean's length of tail but not the set and not so much her stifle.
But let me emphasize these rears are all pretty nice and I'm finding myself being really super picky here. Again I don't need a boy. I don't need a boy. I don't need a boy...
Note: For those who don't like their fingers bit and bleeding from razor sharp puppy teeth, save some chicken bones with a bit of meat left on them. The puppy can gnaw on the bone instead.
Now the pics.
Logan
Rogue (I had to reduce the contrast for easier viewing of the angles - she's so dark!!)
Jean
Mags (His tail isn't quite *that* short. Why you can't rely on photos alone? Artists call it foreshortening.)
For those who want to see what we're talking about please refer to this website
http://www.cardicommentary.de/goodrears.htm and
http://www.cardicommentary.de/front-siderears.htm
For a quick review of dog anatomy see here
Enchanted Learning's Dog Anatomy
Posts
8 comments:
I'm going to kill blogger...
attempt #2
Definitely Logan. Them angles! But... that tall white sock on his show side is going to makes his hocks appear much longer.
Rogue has some short short hocks with a beautiful paint job on them to match!
Logan appears to have a better tail set and beautimous croup!
Sadly, Jean and Mags' rears do nothing for me.
It wasn't blogger. I tried to be clever and messed up.
but back to the puppies.
I agree about the markings hurting Logan's hocks while Rogue's help hers.
Rogue is a fuzzy puppy. Her croup and tailset are about the same maybe slightly better than can be represented in a photograph well.
Now me being a rear freak...just go to Australia for a while and you will understand why!! I have a few comments here as I don't quite agree with others. Le'o it may be a good idea for those of us looking at pictures to draw lines on the rear, so we can see where the hock actually starts, as it can be hard to tell from pics.
To me...Rogue is your better rear. Let me explain. Logan, although has a flashy angle to his rear, he does not have the short hock to go along with that rear and won't have the full follow through that Rogue will have. The angle sometimes isn't quite as important as the hock to thigh to hip ratio. In a perfect world on a young puppy, the thigh, hip, hock ratio should be the same. IMO and in my experience, the hock at this age is smaller on a fabulous rear. So, if I look at Logan, from the pictures I am seeing his hock almost equal to his other parts. In Rogue's rear, her angles, although not quite as good, her hock is much shorter, there for she will be able to drive off of that rear better. Logan may do well enough, but he may not have the follow through as Rogue has, thus creating a bicycling type motion in the rear, instead of that true follow through. Of course all of this is from ONLY pictures and truly I would have to feel and see them to really evaluate.
If you look at some of my fabulous movers, they have that shorter hock compared to the thigh, hip. Most of my Australian lines carry that and that's why I imported it and work so heavily on it. Unfortunately as breeding goes...lines might carry an outstanding virtue, but may carry a fault along with it that may take a while to overcome. You have to way both and figure out what is more important to you. Since I grew up in a world with gorgeous rears, it is hard for me to not want that short hock with well angulated rears...although I also have to say that those well angulated rears MUST have the front to go along with it. Thus, balance is MOST important, although sometimes keeping that great thing despite being unbalanced will help you breed that in and hope the next generation has that balance.
I know several breeders may not agree with me on this...but this is what I have learned and strive for. There are MANY cardigans out there without that fabulous rear and it always bugs me. As always IMO.
I could draw lines but I don't think it will help. I mentioned foreshortening in the tail on Mags. Whether you can see the lines of the angles or you have them drawn with extreme accuracy these are 3 dimensional being represented in 2 dimensions. Every curve of muscle, bone, every hair and marking looks shorter or longer depending on the point of view.
For an extreme example of what happens with 2 dimensional media look up the artist Julian Beever.
His website is
http://users.skynet.be/J.Beever/
These amazing drawings are amazing but they demonstrate how the eye can be fooled by line and color. In photographs the principle is the same. A subtle shift of the leg away or toward the camera lens and we the viewers see something that isn't real when you measure it, feel it with your hands and see it from all angles in person.
Frankly, it's what we do as handlers in the ring too.
You are right Emily and several others have said this to me. You have to put your hands on the dog. You have to watch it move.
Thanks for what you have to say. I liked Rogue anyway but I am grateful for all those that are supporting and validating my thoughts.
I agree with Emily about Rogue vs Logan's rear. Logan's angulation looks flashy, but his hocks are longer (and not flattered by the white on his leg) and in the end I think that will show itself in his movement.
I love the shading on your babies, it is so pretty! Wonder if they'll keep it as adults.
I'm with Emily and Jeri on this one.
Rogue.
Thank you everyone for all the commentary on these puppies! I'm learning soooo much from these digital litter evals.
When are the real evals? I'd asked Kim about possibly going to the Rocky litter eval, and I'm betting with MY luck, they're the weekend of the 10th, since I'll be in Pullman ;)
Post a Comment