A word on leg or "leggy"-ness. And also a word on laid back shoulders. While the current discussion has been in the interests of which is the best dog to keep for a breeding program it also has an impact on the puppy families. I am getting questions on what do you think of my puppy, especially performance people.
One look at an agility competition should assuage any concerns about whether that "leggy" Cardi can perform well. There are lots of dogs who do really well with longer legs. VBG. The legginess we are speaking of is really minor here. And these dogs will be very Cardigan-looking. I have heard the shorter stature of the Cardigan was for the intention of being better able to duck away from a kicking cow being driven out of a field. But this is really minor and what is more important for herding and agility interests is drive.
The shoulders being too far forward is also very minor here and will not impact the health of these particular puppies as they grow on. It is something we are trying to breed away from because if it gets worse, and I mean a lot worse, it will impact how well those future generations are supported under the heaviest part of their bodies.
For my performance-inclined homes, if I had any concerns about one of these babies doing agility or herding or any other hard work I would express it clearly so you would know. Please feel free to call or email if you have any questions. This is all in the interest of education and that's a good thing!!
Update in case you missed it on the other post: Please refer to this website
http://www.cardicommentary.de/front.htm
if you are wondering what a proper front should look like on a Cardigan. And bear in mind the pictures are of adult dogs. Puppies at 8 weeks should have less turn out. It comes later as they fill out. It takes a lot of experience to make a more accurate prediction.
Structure Pictures
1 year ago
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7 comments:
My herding friends have talked about why some Cardis who have herding instinct and desire are not successful herders.
It is their opinion that incorrect fronts, including the shoulder layback and excessive turnout, is the culprit. The dogs must not only carry the heaviest part of their bodies, but must be able to move smoothly AND make abrupt turns. The incorrect front causes a break down in that function. The dog is trying to converge as it moves, but the feet are pointed outward. Thus the dog's structure is fighting its normal method of movement. This causes it to be somewhat clumsy and to tire sooner.
Just a thought as you look at what activities puppies might learn to enjoy.
I would agree Penni.
Conversely if you have a dog who is well put together but has no drive it defeats the purpose.
Ideally we want it all but since there is no such thing as a perfect dog we figure out what is worth forgiving and to what degree.
Absolutely -- and we figure out what suits each dog (and owner) best. So, once we analyze the dog's structure and temperament, we are able to say this is an agility candidate, or a herding candidate, or obedience/rally, or tracking, or a very fine couch potato. I think that's so helpful to potential owners.
Additionally, I don't see any unsound fronts at all...it is totally correct stating these are minor differences.
As breeders we'd steer less structurally correct puppies to couch potato homes. But when I am thinking unsound (for agility or herding) I am mainly thinking of knuckling over or super heavy/short bone (which is going to impact endurance). Slightly longer legs (even pasterns) or lighter bone will make less weight and be more similar to old style cardis, and a performance home isn't going to notice a difference between 40 and 45% on an angle (for example).
All of the puppies strike me (from pictures, mind you) as being structurally just fine...as I would expect from thier parents.
Certainly I was not suggesting these puppies are unsound -- I was commenting on the general statement, so often made, that if a puppy isn't a conformation dog, it is a performance candidate. That's not the case. Slightly less than perfect (wouldn't we love to see perfect) isn't going to prevent a dog from participating in athletic venues.
I didn't take it that way Penni. and I didn't think anyone else was either. It really is good to keep in mind what our goals are with the puppy we are taking on and be looking with our heads before we follow our hearts.
I appreciate everyone's input.
Yes, I have to agree, my boy Magic is leggy, with a very high tail, (oh no the dreaded curl over the back) and lighter boned, but he is also balanced and he rocks at agility. Often beating the YPS of the larger dogs, when not held up by his old fat handler. With lighter bone, the tail and the longer legs he is not a conformation prospect at all, but for performance is is wonderful. He even does weight pulling and again, when you consider the % of weight pulled compared to body weight, he beat many of the dogs in the bigger dog class.
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